"If a person with belief dies and finds there is no eternal life then they will be in exactly the same position as the athiests." - They won't be in the same position as an athiest at all. It will mean that everything they have believed in during their life is wrong and they have spent their lives believing nothing more than a myth.

"But if the athiests are wrong they lose all. " - If an atheist finds there is an afterlife after all, then it would be an unexpected surprise !!

Paul C, London, UK

Great Comment:
If a person with belief dies and finds there is no eternal life then they will be in exactly the same position as the athiests. But if the athiests are wrong they lose all.

Angil, Rialto, California

Some of us don't feel like we are missing out on what the world has to offer. I, for one, don't feel like I am missing out on anything. I enjoy serving God. I've tried the things the world has to offer and know firsthand what destruction they can cause. I do have a purpose in my life. I'm not just drifting aimlessly waiting for the afterlife.

Connie W., Poplarville, MS, USA

The use of Pascal's wager (the last part of Dave's comment) always bring a smile to my face. Dave, have you ever stopped and thought perhaps the more religious types will spend their lives doing nothing in particular with it, missing out on so much the world has to offer, then dying alone? And then there being nothing waiting for them? My wager works the other way, I shall do what i like, enjoy myself and chance it.

Its quite alright for religion to be taught in school but the moment anyone gets a wiff of atheism everyone goes berzerk

Nick, Eastbourne,

My previous comment got slightly garbled in the process of communication!

It should have read:

Kyalo.
I don't think Dave does suggest that God "is planning to have atheists tortured for eternity if they do not conform! " It isn't legitimate to allege that people say or believe something they don't, and then slam into them for saying it. Are you not behaving as illogically and unfairly as Dawkins often appears to do?
It's easy to put up your own Aunt Sallies and knock them down - but hardly a valid way of arguing a point.

I wish Pullman and Dawkins would actually give Christians the credit for having at least some intelligence. They might find it heplful to actually read the Gospels and Acts, and to apply their undoubted intellects to finding out what the Christian Faith is really about. rather than attacking all Christians indiscrimately!

bob wilkinson, milnthorpe, cumbria

Kyalo.

I don't think Dave does "suggest that it does and He is planning to have atheists tortured for eternity if they do not conform! " It isn't legitimate to allege that people say or believe something they don't, and then slam into them for saying it. Are you not behaving as illogically unfairly as Dawkins often appears Christians say? It's easy to put up your own Aunt Sallies and knock them down - but hardly a valid way of arging a point!

bob wilkinson, milnthorpe, cumbria

"...But if the athiests are wrong they lose all."

Are you suggesting that Atheists are all going to hell? If so, I think your God is exceptionally petty. Why should it matter to some all powerful being who created us, loves us, and gave us free will (ie. the ability not to believe in Him) if we believe he exists or not? You suggest that it does and He is planning to have us tortured for eternity if we do not conform! And there was me thinking that Christians thought it had something to do with being a good person (this was naïve perhaps, a Christian friend informed me recently “it’s not about being a good person. It’s about following certain rules). What a thoroughly pleasant being God is.

Kyalo, Bude, Cornwall

Dave,

I really do feel sorry for you. The last two sentences of your comment reveal that the main reason (if not one of the main reasons) you live in hope of an afterlife is through fear of 'missing out'. Confident atheists have no such burden as they know, not 'believe', exactly what death means. Not only that but atheists have a far greater appreciation of what happens in life itself. It is tragic that the effect of so many religions on their followers is to glorify a false afterlife at the expense and subordination of their one actual life.

You also wear proudly on your sleeve another common misunderstanding about the non-religous. This is that they have no or little purpose in life. Life can have many purposes, countless possibilities all more virtuos than those founded in the supernatural. For example the pursuit of happyness, when supported by a strong moral constitution based in human compassion and empathy , is a far more worthy and preferable purpose to life.

Tom, London,

It appears that there is a concentrated effort at this time by the 'atheist prophets' to garner support for their view. It's a shame that Pullman's explicit atheistic views are so much more subtly communicated to his young readers - he's clearly trying to influence them without them being aware of it whilst trying to court controversy to publicise himself and this book - an approach more recently successfully adopted by Richard Dawkins and his best selling The God Delusion (which I found more than countered by Alister McGrath's The Dawkins Delusion). The difficulty I have with Pullman and Dawkins is that they appear to want to replace one set of rules to live life by with another - for so little purpose. The answers to these debates will only be ultimately decided when we leave the constraints of this current world. If a person with belief dies and finds there is no eternal life then they will be in exactly the same position as the athiests. But if the athiests are wrong they lose all.

Dave, Northumberland,

The real question people should be asking, bearing in mind that each of us is is fallible and that everything we believe (whether Christians, Moslems, Atheists or whatever)is to a greater or lelsser extent conditioned by our experience is : "Does this or that world-view seem to me to be as near to the truth as I can find?" I am a Christian partly because of my experience, and partly because having thought long and hard about the evidence none of the alternatives seem to me to match up to it. Of course there are problems and difficulties; but frankly - faced with such an incredible cosmos - I find Atheism absurd; and not other faith has a God great enough to identify himself so totally with human beings as Christians believe God did in Jesus Christ.

bob wilkinson, milnthorpe, cumbria

What exactly is Pullman describing when he speaks of "something that is palpably not true"? All religions? Fundamentalist Judaism, Christianity or Islam? New Age? Animism? Mainstream Christian religion as espoused by many highly intelligent scientists and philosophers?

bob wilkinson, milnthorpe, cumbria

John, you're absolutely correct when you say "The only reason why the West has the notion that man should not be oppressed is due to the Christian religion"
Without the catholic church oppressing Gallileo, Da'Vinci, Giordano Bruno and all the other thinkers and scientists that helped advance human understanding, the humanists that forced these changes would not have had such a shining example of the dangers inherent in allowing autocratic religious organisations to have politcal privilege and influence.
John, if they hadn't been forced by HUMANS to change their ways we would still have apostates being burned at the stake just for thinking a little differently.
Wake up, there are no gods watching over us. The idea is absurd. All you need to do is think about it.

Bill, Glasgow,

Political secularism (seperation between religion and government) is not anti-religion at all. That's the whole point of political secularism - it *protects* freedom of religion by not favouring any particular one over the others. So to characterize political secularism as oppressive is just plain false. Do not buy into organized religion's demonization of political secularism. Because of it the United States has the most diverse religious culture in the world with over 2500 registered religions!

CitizenX, Cape Town, South Africa

John C has an interesting theory, though not one based on accepted historical fact or sound cholarly principles. Such prevarications add nothing to the discussion and only serve to provoke. I am not interested in claiming that any particular religion or atheist movement in history is innocent of oppressing others. I would, however, suggest that John C read the Bible with his comment in mind, as it contains many instances both instructing and glorifying not just oppression but even genocide.

Furthermore, someone needs to point at that the numerous and merciless instances and campaigns of oppression perpetrated on behalf and in the name of the Christian faith are well documented.

I would also guess that John C's comment would be received as nothing short of offensive to any non-Christian, not to mention history's numerous non-Christian proponents and campaigners for human rights.

Tom, London,

Jon W's comment may be accurate if there were such a thing as organised anti-religion but I fear that this is nothing but a strawman constructed by those who wish to keep religion as a central part of education and life in general without anyone else having a say in the matter. There are indeed groups of people who wish to see a clear separation of church and state in the UK, who do not wish to be forced to fund discriminatory faith schools through their taxes and who wish to see reason triumph over blind faith in general.

However this is NOT anti-religion. It is merely a request to recognise faith as a personal thing, something voluntary and therefore something which should not be foisted on those who have no need for it and simply ae not interested. Religion should stay out of politics and publicly funded education and get back to homes and churches where those who are so inclined can have the right to indulge in it to their hearts' content. Anything else is simple oppression.

Paul A, Edinburgh,

Tom from London is right.

It is because of religious oppresion that the interlectual classes through history have kept there atheism a secret.

We as humans take a lead from the brightest thinkers of our time, and it is about time that all those atheists who lead us on so many other issues declared their lack of belief so that the masses can be enlightened.

Pullman is to be congratulated, along with Dawkins and Tom from London, for daring to speak out where so many others have been unable to do so.

The article above is evidence that the opression exists, surely in a fully enlightened world it would not be worth reporting.

Tom for President!

Anthony, Cardiff,

I take issue with John C. Wright's comment that "the only reason why the West has the notion that man should not be oppressed is due to the Christian religion".
What about the pre-christian philosophy and history of western Europe? Philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle and Socrates were very much concerned with individual freedom, its definition and limitations. The ancient Greeks and Romans had a very strong sense of individual freedom and a strong hatred of tyranny which has survived to the present day and is very much reflected in the present constitution of the USA. Obviously they did not always apply those same freedoms to their subject peoples.
It might be argued that the Christian religion, through its doctrine of passive obedience and humility, has contributed more to mankinds oppression than any other western philosophical movement.

Rob King, Norwich , UK

The opposition to religion is even more oppressive. The only reason why the West has the notion that man should not be oppressed is due to the Christian religion.

John C. Wright, Centreville, USA

Jon W's comment is accurate, but only in the context of those that believe in one god oppressing those that believe in another. History is not just peppered, but defined, by organised religions of all kinds oppressing anyone that did not share or purport to share the exact same belief system. Collectively it is nothing short of tragedy, and humankind's most shameful behaviour.

A secular state, that which the USA is supposed to have as per the constitution, is the only environment in which people are truly free to hold their own beliefs and world view without any form of oppression, however weak.

With religion having never been so important in a presidential race as now, and the US population having never been so ignorant to scientific fact and theory (28% believe in evolution?), these are frightening times we live in.

Anything that this new book of Pullman's can do to shed light, promote reason or indeed just stimulate debate, can only be a good thing.

Tom, London,

Organized anti-religion IS oppressive. Get with it.

Jon W, Chicago, USA

Anything that gives kids an antidote to all the religious indoctrination they're fed at school has to be a good thing - give them some different viewpoints and let them make their own minds up. I remember sitting in a religious eduction class aged 10 being completely baffled how anyone could believe in all that superstitious nonsense. But, needless to say, precocious atheism didn't stop me thoroughly enjoying the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe books.

Macelington, Nottingham,

Organised religion IS oppressive. Get with it.

Hughes, Ipsden,